WONDERMIKE
Administratorkenough
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Nach der Newsmeldung hab ich in einem anderen Forum einen Pakistaner gefragt ob bei ihm alles soweit in Ordnung ist und bin mit ihm ins Gespräch gekommen, ich denk mir sein Standpunkt ist sicher für viele interessant auch wenn er natürlich politisch nach seiner Ausrichtung eingefärbt ist
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Hello, there.
You have good questions, and you have a good insight into some aspects. I apologize in advance that this is going to be a LONG reply, as I want to address all your points properly and I can’t do that with 3 paragraph soundbites. This is NOT all going to be factual so please take what I say with a pinch of salt. I’m a pro-west liberal, so my opinions are going to bias this a bit. Sorry.*Takes deep breath*. Okay, here we go.
Quick note:
PPP = Pakistan People Party(party of Benazir Bhutto, and her father, zulfiqar).
PML = Pakistan Muslim league (party of Nawaz Sharif. After sharif was removed in 1999, half of it split off and was taken over by Musharraf and called PML-Q).
Some Main events: 1999 coup.
2002 parliamentary elections where rigging got the PML-Q a majority.
2007 (Musharraf declares emergency , sacks the supreme court)
1) Violence part of a routine?:
In Pakistan, violence and insecurity is a fact of life. We have one of the biggest cities in the world, with one of the highest murder rates(Karachi, 20 million people). People shot dead daily for a mobile phone, or a car, or whatever. That happens in any country in the world……….but in Pakistan, the criminals are almost never caught.
There were gang-wars in the streets in Karachi during the 90’s in which hundreds of people died. In addition, throughout Pakistan there have been religiously motivated attacks between the members of two major communities of Islam(Shias and Sunnis). For instance, there was a targeted killing spree of 80 shia doctors by sunni terrorists. There were attacks by shia terrorists on sunni religious priests (the equivalent of the local priest or father). Thankfully, that brand of violence has stopped for 2-3 years now.
Now, the violence seems totally random. On one of the holiest days of this year (our equivalent of Christmas), suicide bombers charged into a mosque and killed several dozen people. Innocent men, women and children massacred. It’s not the first time; such incidents happen every few months. A political rally being targeted, a place of worship, a speech by the prime minister………nothing is off-limits anymore. Also, in the northern areas, there has been a pro-Taliban uprising against the government in which several thousand rebels and soldiers have died.
Yet, I hope I’m not making Pakistan sound like a warzone. In actual fact, 99% of people can go about their work unaffected despite such happenings. Over here, terrorism or violence is just another rare cause of death like car-accidents. Yeah it happens to people, but hundreds out of a population of 150 million, when thousands probably die every year of car-accidents or lung cancer? After all, I’m sure there are thousands of murders in the U.S as well, its just that those are not motivated by religious extremism or political agendas.
Its not such a big deal to us, as it would be in the West if a few dozen people died. I don’t know if that makes any sense, but over here the attitude is : “another bomb-blast? Riots? Shootings? Been there, seen that. Are the shops and markets open now, and have the roads been cleared? My family and friends ok? Yes? Lovely, lets go back to work then.” If your number is up and you get caught in the random violence; that’s too bad, but its unlikely. And its a sad reflection on our society that we’re all accustomed to such violent happenings now.
2) Benazir Bhutto, a saint !!??
You’re very sharp to spot that the western media is too sympathetic towards Benazir. To put things in context, I have to give a little history. I’m sorry if you know this already. Benazir’s father, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was one of the most charismatic politicians our country has ever known. He rose up in the 60’s as a savior of the poor; someone to overthrow corruption, elitism, religious extremists, feudal landlords. He was a hero to the liberals and the lower classes. Unfortunately, somewhere in the 70’s after being elected, he lost his way. He couldn’t accomplish all his agenda, although there were some successes. Like army dictators before and after him, he resorted to jailing political opponents, caving in on reforms, trying to establish personal influence on judiciary and army. It backfired, he lost credibility, and the conservative army took advantage with a coup and executing him. To be fair to Zulfiqar, his task and ambitions were enormously challenging, and he did achieve more for the economy and political reforms than any leader since.
For the poor and liberals, that was a death knell to their dreams. Nationwide, there was shock and a large segment of population (not all) idolized him. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was flawed, but he was a genius visionary……..and compared to the religious extremism that followed in next ten years of army rule, he looked better and better. When the army finally left power in late 80’s, Benazir was elected almost solely because she had her father’s name, leadership of his party, and a stated commitment to his principles of justice and helping the poor. Sadly, while her father had had some mixed successes, her rule was much less notable. Soon, she lost almost all credibility due to corruption charges……..alleged thefts of hundreds of millions of dollars. Of course, no-one knows which charges are through, and which are political smear. But a lot of people believe them, and more importantly, she never achieved much for the poor or women despite her promises. Her supporters would claim its because of fundamental problems in Pakistan are hard to remove, most others would say she falied, plain and simple.
Also, for all her claims and portrayal as a liberal, she’s been known to support anti-liberal policies. In Pakistan, she’s known as the “mother of the Taliban”, because of the support and funding Pakistan gave them in the early 90’s . This was before AL-Qaeda though, when America was not against the Taliban.. Anyway, to shorten this long story a bit, in 1999 the army took over again since Benazir and her political rival Sharif had not achieved much in last ten years.
This probably makes it sound like Benazir didn’t have much support, huh? But that’s not true either. Over last 8 years, things have gotten bad here due to events of 9/11. There were a lot of people here who wanted to give Benazir another chance. People thought past failures in office, and 8 years in exile she would have learnt from her mistakes. She was saying all the right things in public about taking a stand against terrorists, fighting for the poor and oppressed and taking Pakistan towards democracy again. Not to mention, that in many circles, her father’s name is revered as saint-like.
To sum up, there is a segment of population here (One quarter? One-fifth? I’m not sure) who did revere her like a Martin Luther king or Nelson Mandela, as someone who could save their country. There were a lot of other people (myself included) who felt she was flawed but that she was the best chance our country had. If corruption was a disqualification for being a leader, then Pakistan would have no rulers……..not army, not politicians, nobody. If nothing else, Benazir was a popular leader who had the support to push through much-needed reforms and changes in Pakistan as she claimed she wanted to do. Whether she would have done so this time (I like to hope she would have)…………we’ll never know now.
3) Regarding Musharraf and Benazir:
First of all, lets be clear on one thing…….the two of them hated each other. Musharraf kept her in exile until American and local pressure forced him to bring her back. He’s called her corrupt, she’s called him dictator. She hates him as her main political rival. But politics makes for odd bedfellows………did they have any common interests? I’d say definitely yes.
You have to understand, in Pakistan being anti-democratic is not the same as being a religious extremist. Musharraf is no doubt, very anti-democratic. But he’s a secular liberal, and religious extremism is one of the biggest threats to him. Even though he’s had clashes with secular lawyer and judge community, with the secular politicians……..that’s only because they’re against army rule now.
I do think he and Benazir would have put aside their pro-democratic/anti-democratic differences to take on the terrorists, simply because the country’s survival (and theirs!!) was on line. The same groups who killed Benazir have attempted to kill Musharraf in the past as well. He’s survived attempted shootings, bombings and suicide attacks. It shows how petty politics can be here, that there are a whole bunch of factions here opposed to terrorism which are at each other’s throats instead of saving the country.
Of course, there will always be conspiracy theories that musharraf had benazir killed (or helped) so that he would have one less political rival. We’ll never know if that’s true, but I personally think its farfetched.
4) Regarding Mush and Bush:
Yes, Mush and Bush is the popular name for this duo. People look at the fact that Pakistan has supported Bush’s policies in Afghanistan without question, handed over Pakistani citizens, started a war against pro-taliban rebels in order to capture Al-Qaeda suspects……….we have thousands dead, and Pakistan is much worse of than last 6 years. I’m one of the few people who actually think Pakistan needed to confront all these terrorist forces and that its not all america’s fault……….but our country has been ravaged , and most people here think too much support of America is behind that. It was only when Musharraf tried to extract them from our country that they increased their attacks on local targets.
At the very least, even those who think musharraf had to face terrorists(like myself) think that he did it in a stupid, ineffective way. He alienated neutral tribal chiefs by invading territory to search for terrorists, killed innocent civilians with careless bombings and actually increased the support the Taliban and al-qaeda have here. Not to mention, Musharraf treated secular nationalists and tribal leaders defending their territory in the same heavy handed manner that he treated al-qaeda terrorists……which of course results in them growing closer links. Musharraf has lost a lot of credibility now, both for his support of Bush and because terrorism has gone up a lot during his rule.
I’m not saying its entirely musharraf’s fault, or if this was bound to happen after 9/11…….but the point is ,he doesn’t seem to be making progress. And that’s where many people thought he and Benazir together might have enough political clout to make things happen.
5) Regarding Musharraf and anti-democracy:
If you talk about Musharraf’s first coup in 1999, it was almost universally supported by the public and even most political parties (except sharif’s, obviously). Sharif had come to power in a landslide due to corruption charges against Benazir (although in the long run, she has a more dedicated and broad political base in population). He was ammending the constitution to give himself more and more powers, he had an ugly confrontation with the chief justice where he had a bunch of thugs storm the supreme court to break up proceedings against him. The economy was flat, there were corruption charges against Sharif also, he sacked the army chief before musharraf and tried to have musharraf exiled without any legal basis whatsoever. So it was NOT all legal.But of course, Musharraf launching a coup was also not legal, no matter what the public support.
What really lost Musharraf support and made people think of him as anti-democratic or a “dictator” is NOT the 1999-coup itself. Heck, the PPP itself congratulated him on the coup. No, its what happened afterwards when he refused to leave gracefully for politicians.. First, there were the fixed elections in 2002 and the sham pro-musharraf parliament appointed (selected, not elected).. Then the military campaign against tribal leaders in north. Then capturing and disappearing terrorism suspects without warrants. Army corruption in taking over money, jobs and land.. When the supreme court challenged musharraf’s holding onto power so long, and the illegal disappearances, he first had the Chief justice sacked (in 2007). Then after street protests, he declared emergency, removed entire supreme court, jailed thousands of political activists and lawyers (just last two months)…………all this while, the country was in grip of terrorism. Musharraf told the nation the political activists were to blame for obstructing him in his fight against the terrorists. I don’t know the actual truth, but my instincts are to distrust dictators wanting absolute power, no matter what they say………I don’t believe you need to be above the law to stop terrorism.
Anyway, I’m sorry this went on so long……..I needed to go into detail to try and give a complete picture of what I think and why I think it. My opinion is not fact; a lot of Pakistanis would disagree with me on many things. There are hardcore benazir supporters who love her. Also hardcore Mush supporters who think democracy is actually an obstacle in fighting terrorists and who support his anti-democratic actions as the only way. There are those who say he’s to blame for following Bush so blindly. Others who say that if he hadn’t, Pakistan would have been invaded like Iraq. The only things which are nearly unanimously believed here are that:
1) Bush is an idiot.
2) Almost all politicians and army higher-ups are power hungry; almost every party has charges of corruption against them. That includes PPP, PML, the army and the puppet party that Mushrraf formed for 2002 election (the PML-Q).
3) Terrorism has to be stopped.
I promise never to write such a huge message again. If you have questions on any short points, I can give a brief response to that. But I think I’ve taken enough of your time with my thoughts.
Have a happy and safe holiday season.
Cheers,
Amirali.[/QUOTE]
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schizo
Produkt der Gesellschaft
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[quote]Massive Wahlfälschung!
Ein Augenzeugenbericht von Eric de Bruyn aus Karachi, 19. Februar 2008
Der gestrige Tag begann sehr hoffnungsfroh, wie man in meinem Bericht sehen kann. Aber erst das was ich gestern erlebte machte mir klar, dass der Wahltag nur der Beginn eines langen und harten Befreiungskampfes der pakistanischen Menschen ist. Gestern besuchte ich ca. 20 „gefährdete“ Wahllokale. Alle in einem Gebiet das von der MQM, der Partei die die Macht in Karachi und der gesamten Sindh ausübt. Die MQM ist eine islamitische Partei und die lokale Stütze des Musharraf Regimes.
Wenn ich sage die “Macht ausübt” muss man diesen Begriff wortwörtlich verstehen. In Theorie haben alle Parteien das Recht Wahlbeobachter in die Wahllokale zu senden. In dem Gebiet das ich besuchte hatte nur in einem fünftel der Wahllokale Wahlbeobachter von der PPP. Andere Oppositionsparteien trauten sich gar nicht hin. Diese Wahlbeisitzer sind unglaublich mutige Menschen. Sie werden misshandelt, auch Fälle von Entführung und Mord durch die Partei an der Macht kommen vor. Ein Mitarbeiter einer lokalen NGO erzählte mir, dass am Wahltag 15 PPP Wahlbeisitzer ermordet wurden. Insgesamt wurden 27 WahlbeisitzerInnen am Wahltag in den Wahllokalen ermordet, abgesehen von Folterungen, Entführungen,... Seit letzter Nacht fehlt von zwei PPP Aktivistinnen in Karachi jede Spur. Wir versuchten den Mangel an WahlbeisitzerInnen durch eine Art „fliegenden Streikposten“ in dieser „sensiblen Zone“ zu kompensieren.
Der Mangel an WahlbeisitzerInnen der PPP war nicht das einzige was ich sah: einige Wahllokale waren als Parteilokale der MQM geschmückt. Bereits ausgefüllte Wahlzettel lagen hier herum (natürlich MQM-Stimmen), warteten darauf gestempelt und damit offizialisiert zu werden, Identifikationsausweise für „WählerInnen die nicht auf der Wahlliste standen (in anderen Worten, Identitätsausweise für nicht existierende Menschen), Wahlzettel wurden in unversiegelten Koffern aufgewahrt. Einige Wahlfälschungen wurden durch unsere Präsenz und Intervention rückgängig gemacht. Ca. 900 gefälschte Wahlzettel konnten durch unsere Tätigkeit aus dem Verkehr gezogen werden.
Das schlimmste jedoch erlebten wir erst am Abend als wir zum zentralen Wahlauszählungsbüro des Wahlkreises NA 257 gingen. Was ich sah und fotografierte schlägt alles vorstellbare. Stöße von geöffneten Säcken mit Wahlzetteln liegen hier herum. Wahlergebniszettel werden in den Gängen des Gebäudes wahllos ausgefüllt oder geändert. Andere Orginalformulare werden vernichtet und weggeworfen. Aufgrund unseres Druckes und der Anwesenheit von lokalen Medienvertretern, wird ein lokaler Wahlkommissionsvorsitzender verhaftet und weggeschafft. Trotzdem - überrascht es ,dass der sozialistische PPP Kandidat Riaz Lund die Wahl offiziell verloren hat? Am Abend der Wahl, nach Auszählung von 50 der insgesamt 198 Wahlbezirke lag er mit 15.000 Stimmen vor dem MQM Kandidaten. [/quote]
Ich denke der Text könnte einige hier intressieren.
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